That Panel Gap Though! (Question to US Jalops)

"SwissTony" (SwissTony) 01/09/2015 at 14:29 • Filed to: panel gap, viper, dodge, srt, gap, cars, jalopnik, oppo

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Having just seen the new Viper video,
I have a couple of questions for my fellow jalops, who are lucky enough to be in the country famous for the right to arm bears, or bear arms while driving awesome C7s and Vipers.

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While I mostly interact with European and Japanese cars, my experience with American cars left me with one big question:

What is it with those panel gaps?

When I see this on an E46 BMW, I know that the trunk has been replaced or repaired at some point, yet gaps of that size seem to be perfectly acceptable on the mustangs and corvettes I have seen. In fact US panel gaps can only be matched by british cars from the 7os.

I am not hating on American cars here, I just wonder as to the reason behind it, and the perception of it in the US? Does it bother you?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 14:33

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If I can't stick my pinky in it, it's tight enough for me.

I guess we just don't have the insanely precise tolerances of German and Japanese cars. Though the gaps on most modern US cars are pretty tight, I dunno what's wrong with that 'Vette (?). Pre-production maybe.

camaroboy68ss > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 14:34

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you should see panel gaps of unrestored muscle cars from the 60s. It's like the line workers didn't even try. About the only american cars that super duper nice gaps were the C2 corvettes and early C3s. Everything else was atoucious

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 14:35

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excessive panel gap is just a passive cooling system.

Hood gap? Ram air for the engine.

Door gap? Cooling for driver and passengers.

Trunk gap? Keeps your luggage and/or groceries cool.

and 100 more > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 14:38

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You ask us like it's a strange American custom, lol!

We hate it too, man.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 14:38

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In fact US panel gaps can only be matched by british cars from the 7os.

They can be exceeded, believe me, although my own perspective is colored by working on Landies. Shims to adjust the fit of body pieces and variations of as much as a half inch in the length of the door opening? Perfectly normal.

Rico > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/09/2015 at 14:39

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If I can't stick my pinky in it, it's tight enough for me.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/09/2015 at 14:39

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I can't help but wonder if it's because the Vette's made of fiberglass. I just took a look at the expansion coefficients, and it looks like fiberglass expands at about twice the rate of mild steel with temperature changes.

ACESandEIGHTS > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/09/2015 at 14:39

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If you think German and Japanese tolerances are tight, you should see their assh***s.

I think now it's been summed up nicely in a don't put too fine a point on it analogous—no pun intended but graciously accepted—way.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Rico 01/09/2015 at 14:39

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OH MY GOD NO NOT LIKE THAT.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/09/2015 at 14:42

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Possible, but I see some sloppiness around the rear window that I've never seen in other pictures of production C7s which leads me to think that's a pre-production one.

uofime > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/09/2015 at 14:43

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it's the unevenness of it that sucks, that just suggests poorly built parts not just poorly assembled ones

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > camaroboy68ss 01/09/2015 at 14:50

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I just did an idle search for the Big Three's compacts, and it looks from some of the examples that Chevy had their shit together more often than the other two.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > camaroboy68ss 01/09/2015 at 14:52

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I've seen pictures of old muscle cars where I question if the hood is closed or not, the gaps are that big.

T5Killer > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 14:53

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To be honest I never care or paid to much attention unless its massively off . But I don't think I count since everything I drive is from the '80s and '90s

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 14:55

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I'd say mine is pretty damn good from all the way back in 68

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > camaroboy68ss 01/09/2015 at 14:58

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meant to aim this your way.

I don't think the Montego is that bad, it's unrestored from the 60's

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/id-say-mine-is…

StoneCold > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 15:08

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It's definitely a thing with fiberglass to have gap.

Quote from one of my Shelby Registry books about the '65-'66 GT350:

"If your fiberglass hood fits perfectly, it's not from the factory."

SwissTony > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/09/2015 at 15:08

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Never thought about the different materials used make on the panel gap, good point.

SwissTony > and 100 more 01/09/2015 at 15:14

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Well, I was just wondering if maybe it is something people do not even notice, maybe I am the only crazy one, haha

RallyWrench > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 15:16

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Because when you have 700hp and a warranty, panel gaps don't much matter.

SwissTony > StoneCold 01/09/2015 at 15:18

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Haha, that is great.

Among similiar lines, Porsche crowds have one rule about Targa tops: "There are Targas that leak, and there are those where the owner is lying"

RallyWrench > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/09/2015 at 15:19

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I don't think the hood on that Falcon is fully closed, they're nowhere near that bad.

and 100 more > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 15:24

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No, it's definitely not just you.

I think people (Americans) just ignore it on domestic cars, for the most part. And people who are bothered by panel gaps tend to buy German or Japanese cars anyway, probably for other reasons that aren't totally unrelated.

I will say that its something I'm not keenly aware of on a day-to-day basis; but when you see a car that's been reworked, and special attention paid to things like reducing panel gaps, it's a beautiful thing.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RallyWrench 01/09/2015 at 15:25

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While this is true, I speak from personal experience of my own '63 that the hoods are very fiddly to align properly. The big panel weirdness location, actually, seems to be the fender to the door in/out and the tail edge of the front fender on the bottom to the rocker panel. The rear sections just have wavy sheet metal, mostly.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/09/2015 at 15:32

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Some cars, like the Challenger's and Cuda's that had fiberglass hoods, have a very good reason for this. The hood springs would literally bend the hood at that area they were so strong. If you see an old Chally or cuda and the back of the hood is either sunk (no springs in it) or bulged up (springs in it) you know why.

RallyWrench > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/09/2015 at 15:35

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Oh yeah, I can't believe I forgot about your Ranchero! I'll bet they're hard to get right. I know Mustangs are a pain in the ass, particularly the long doors.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RallyWrench 01/09/2015 at 15:37

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http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/general-ranche…

http://ramblinrover.kinja.com/rust-167838085…

Current status posts. The second post is actually pictures I took on my phone to show the sandblaster to get a quote, then couldn't get on a computer via USB cable because my phone was being an idiot. Kinja posts to the rescue!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > StoneCold 01/09/2015 at 16:11

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It's what they also say about 'Cuda AAR hoods.

RedPir8Roberts > StoneCold 01/09/2015 at 16:22

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The Shelbys were also done in a hand-made kind of way, and not in the Aston Martin sense, more like hotrodding than production line. The molds for the 1967 Shelby front clip were created from a pre-production car that had been crash-tested, so it's amazing they fit at all. More generally to the OP's point, Ford makes more Mustangs in a day (and if not, certainly cars period) than Porsche or maybe even BMW makes cars in a year, I'm guessing. Back in the day there were no robots, so workers had all of a few seconds to align the panels, which were designed to hang on to the fenders with few bolts.

I am tempted to think the Viper's panel gaps, which are notorious, were originally the result of it being designed as a skunkworks kind of project, and then later models kept is as a nod to how that sort of thing doesn't matter when you have 450 plus horsepower and no ABS. Real men don't care about panel gaps, or burning their legs on the sidepipes. Or sudden death by telephone pole.

DoYouEvenShift > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 16:25

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I honestly have never given it more than 5 minutes thought. And its not just a "oh its just a cheap car thing". But really it doesnt bother me.

camaroboy68ss > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/09/2015 at 16:26

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my Camaro's was really bad but most of it was due to a wreck.

It's not bad but I spot some things, Im so used to building show cars that I've become a perfectionist at getting body lines right, but there is only so much you can without drastic measures

PilotMan > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 16:35

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The Solstice was very much built like a steel Corvette, here's your non-fiberglass example:

NJAnon > SwissTony 01/09/2015 at 18:13

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@SwissTony

I'm going to say what the engineers of Chevrolet and Dodge and Ford were told:

"They told us to make it fast."

/story

dr861 > SwissTony 01/10/2015 at 00:12

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Bigger Gap = Less Weight = Racecar = 'MURICA!!!!!!!

wiffleballtony > SwissTony 01/11/2015 at 00:10

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Never really noticed it on any of my four domestics that I have owned.